Global Citizen Award Winner, Interview with a Current and Future Star

Debra and Linda

Debra is a star. Really. Recently she appeared as the representative of her university in a piece that was broadcast nationally. But that’s not really why she’s a star; instead, it’s her presence as a person to her friends and classmates. In her interview you will hear a voice that speaks of global experiences and connections. In the midst of much talk today about how students don’t interact enough with other students who are different, Debra breaks the mold. She has friends from all over the world. Reading her interview will help you understand why,

Can you tell us a little about yourself?  You are originally from Taiwan but grew up in KL. When did your family move there?  How hard was it? You recently visited Taiwan. Do you feel ‘at home’ there?


I’m Chao-Ling, though from a young age most have known me as Debra (with the exception of the time in 6th grade when I arbitrarily decided that “Nikki” was a more appropriate name). Today, I’m currently a 4th year at my University. I’m completing a double-major in English and Sociology, and though I’m hesitant, I’m graduating in exactly three months.

When I turned five, my dad’s company relocated our family from Taichung, Taiwan to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia - the backstory of nearly every expatriate kid, I presume. Because I was young, I found it fairly easy to adjust. My older sister, on the other hand, found it considerably harder to digest the stark contrasts between the two countries. Ironically, it only became harder for me as I grew older.


In hindsight, I’m tremendously grateful for my family’s boldness in leaving the home they’d always taken comfort in. Moving out of our familiar sphere meant that my parents had to adapt and learn. They were willing to be reshaped again and again, and by extension, my sister and I learned to do the same. Attending an international school in Kuala Lumpur (Mont’ Kiara International School, to be specific)  epitomizes this constant changeability. Being enveloped by such a fluid environment has rendered my experience growing up virtually irreplaceable – and to a certain extent, rather inexpressible.

Whether I feel ‘at home’ in Taiwan - or even anywhere - is a hard question to respond to. I’ve always retained a sense of ambivalence towards the notion of ‘home’ because it carries with it a tint of temporality. Growing up in an international school tends to foster the sentiment of impermanence, but in a good way. It’s never affected my ability to nurture relationships with my family and friends, despite the fact that everyone comes and goes. On the contrary, in my experience, the inevitable unpredictability of our circumstances seems to have bolstered our adherence to commitment more often than not. It’s also difficult to define ‘home’ because regardless of where I am, I always feel as if I’m simultaneously occupying the role of the foreigner and the local. I think it’s because I’m the product of bits and pieces from everywhere. So for me, revisiting Taiwan stirs up all sorts of feelings. It’s natural and familiar, yet new and exhilarating. In a sense I’m always at home – partially, at least. Home isn’t something that’s necessarily tangible anymore - and I’d like to think that it’s both a burden and a privilege.



You recently posted a photo of you and your sister. Some siblings are rivals, others are friends, some are opposites and some just like twins. Which are you two?


We are indubitably a bit of everything so it’d be difficult to place us under one category. Given that our family is very close, Pauline and I share a great deal on a fundamental basis. We have very similar ideas with respect to life, morals, principles, lifelong goals and beliefs – and we also share the same penchant for unreservedness, liveliness and sociability. We diverge enormously, however, in our interests and hobbies. For example, in high school I was always more active in sports while she found more amusement in other activities. Since we’ve gotten older, our social circles have actually started overlapping more so it’s interesting to see the way our personalities unfold amongst the same group.
In terms of rivalry, in our younger years, my sister and I fought nearly every single day and over the most trivial matters. It’s funny because our parents had us four years apart under the false belief that a large age gap would preclude us from fighting. My mum used to threaten to kick us out of the car because Pauline and I used to scream at each other so much. We rarely fight anymore though. Despite the fact that I’d like to attribute it to our newfound maturity, a significant part of it is because we now only see each other only a few months every year. In that regard, distance sometimes has its benefits.

We have talked about your Mom not being a tiger mom. How did your parents encourage you to learn and encourage you to be open to other places and cultures? Are you more like your mom or your dad?


I think my mum has always been a strong advocate of experiencing new things. Even early on in my childhood, she constantly tried to expose me to as many things as possible. Both my parents stressed the importance of being flexible and open, which was very fortunate for me. They encouraged me to make new friends, pushed me to travel to a variety of places (both with and without them) and supported me in studying a different language. Whenever I took an interest in any particular area, they stood by me - from dancing to horse riding and from playing music to playing sports. Although only several of these interests lasted, they firmly held the belief that the mere act of experiencing in and of itself retained a certain value. In retrospect, I can’t remember a time when my parents tried to inhibit me. As a child, I used to doodle all over our house walls and even then they never stopped me.

I’d have to say that my personality and mindset seem to equally reflect both my parents. My mum and dad were both very involved in my upbringing - and still are to a degree - so I definitely showcase both their qualities.

Kuala Lumpur

A lot of people don’t know much about KL or Malaysia. Can you talk about what it’s like to live there and what you like and don’t like about it?


To be entirely honest, for a person who grew up in Kuala Lumpur, I know rather little about the country. A part of it lies in the fact that I grew up in a somewhat sheltered and expatriate bubble, but the bigger part lies in the idea that Malaysia is a country that’s hard to pin down. There isn’t one main language, culture, ethnicity or religion. Depending on the person you’re speaking to, you conduct yourself and choose your language differently. It isn’t like the United States where most people are expected to speak English. The diversity of the culture in Malaysia, as a whole, tends to remain more inward-looking and segregated. This is particularly true in the divisions between the Chinese Malaysians and the Malay Malaysians. In the United States, however, it tends to be more unified and homogenized. There are benefits to both, I suppose.


Can you tell us about the secondary school you attended in KL?  

M’KIS was a very small private school, so in that sense, it cultivated a cozy and friendly community amongst the students and teachers. I’ve noticed that international schools in general (we mixed with international schools from all over Southeast Asia) tend to exude this atmosphere of acceptance, openness, collectiveness and encouragement. It’s rather astounding, because you’d think that such a diverse group of people would result in a relatively clique-y and separatist sort of environment. Surprisingly though, instead of having individual bubbles of people who were reduced to a certain label, everyone seemed to be constantly redefining themselves. Back then, nothing felt static – and much of who I am today can be traced back to that very notion. I suppose the quickest way to encapsulate this is to say that my school’s atmosphere has been an integral backdrop to my dynamic and open upbringing. Kuala Lumpur has been a colourful rollercoaster to say the least.


The students were from all over the world. Are you still close with them? 

I would say that I am still extremely close with my high school mates. Honestly, I frequently find myself reminiscing about the past since I miss Malaysia so often. Upon arriving in Charlottesville, I’ve found nostalgia a difficult sensation to shake - especially because it can be such a comforting thought to hold onto at times. Though my classmates and I are currently scattered all over the world, our collective and frequent trips back to the place we all call ‘home’ undoubtedly bolsters our ability to stay in touch. Ironically, none of us are actually Malaysian. Whenever we reunite and share stories, I can’t help but realize that we all lead fairly parallel lives.

How hard were the classes and did they prepare you for study in the US? 

I believe my graduating class was only a handful of 50 students, which meant that we became a family unit during our rigorous years in battling the IB programme. In those years, balancing our tough classes with the programme’s other demanding extracurriculars was terrifying. I remember sleeping only a few hours every night and stealing as many naps as I could during the day. Though I may not have felt this way back then, I can positively admit now that those years contributed largely to my ability to handle challenges today - or at the very least, taught me how to be a fully functional zombie.


Do you think of your school as a bubble of international students who don’t see the real Malaysia or do you see your school as a gateway to becoming a global citizen or is it some of both?


As I sort of touched on before, one of the downsides of living as an expatriate means that you tend to miss out on the “real” parts of the country. A suitable analogy would to be to say that my community was a bubble from Malaysia the same way my university is a bubble from Charlottesville. There are definitely some parallels there. In both cases, there are implicit distinctions and pervasive boundaries drawn between the locals and the visitors. Malaysia is slightly more complex, though, given that there already exists so much diversity within the category of “locals”. Thus, in this context, becoming a “global citizen” stems not so much from engaging with the “locals” in Malaysia, but rather, from participating in the fluid and dynamic environment that international schools foster.



Did you know for a long time you wanted to study in the US? Why not UK or somewhere else? How hard was it to go through the application process from so far away?


Many students from Kuala Lumpur opt to study in Australia or the UK, namely due to the fact that the academic systems are more similar. I elected to come to the United States because my school, in particular, followed an American system. I also knew that I wanted a campus and a community, and I knew that American-styled colleges could offer me that. My sister, on the other hand, chose to attend Melbourne University in Australia. I suppose it all comes down to what type of a higher education environment you’d prefer. In terms of the application process, I enjoyed most of it - mainly due to the creative and open-ended nature of many of the essay prompts. However, I also felt that it was extremely tedious since many of the colleges I applied to didn’t participate in the ‘Common Application’. To me, that was ridiculous. My fellow classmates who applied to schools in the UK or Australia essentially used one program to submit all their applications.


You attend one of the top universities in the US. Was it a huge adjustment?


I have to admit that my initial reaction upon arriving in Charlottesville was jarring. At first glance, the university appeared homogenous and the social life seemed monotonous - and not to mention, the Greek life was a system I didn’t quite understand. The short brick buildings of this quaint town suddenly stood in stark contrast to the towering skyscrapers of the large city I was accustomed to. I remembering feeling disappointed and trapped. Within a few months and with the help of my international friends, however, I began to adapt fairly quickly. I found amazing social circles which vaguely mirrored the diversity of the ones I had back home. Slowly, I began to appreciate the wonderful aspects of Uva more and more - the greenness of Charlottesville and serene beauty of our Grounds became only the veneer of a place that was so much more.

One of the heavier adjustments I experienced emerged within the academic realm. From being in a small high school, I was accustomed to small classes and small student-to-teacher ratios. My classes during the first semester consisted of large lecture halls and seminars. Despite sitting amongst hundreds of people, I felt strangely isolated. Though I was able to acclimate to the new classroom setting by the end of my first year, there are still times today when I muse over the coziness of my old high school classes.


Because your English is flawless do people have difficulty believing you are an international student from Asia? Have you been the subject of stereotyping either because you are international or Asian?

Most strangers who meet me think I’m American and have a bit of difficulty in wrapping their heads around the fact that I’m not. I don’t blame them though, because I understand that I carry a fairly strong American accent most of the time. Despite Chinese being my native tongue, my English skills far surpass my Mandarin skills - and sometimes, a part of me feels regret for allowing that to happen. I can speak Mandarin fluently, but to say that I can read and write proficiently would be an enormous exaggeration (the kind that people save for padding their résumé).
Since we are immersed in a culture that lends itself to immense amounts of generalizations, I’m sure that I’ve been the subject of stereotyping at some point during my time here. It’s never been made explicit to me, but perhaps the ways in which people subconsciously treat me are a result of their inadvertent dispositions to stereotyping.


Do you have some favorite courses you want to mention?

I’d say Claire Raymond’s Violence and Gender class - though I warn you, it’s not for the faint-hearted - and a discussion-based class with Sydney Blair, because she’s such an open-minded and encouraging professor (and has very good taste in contemporary American literature).


I know some of your good friends and they come from Switzerland, Thailand, Guatemala, Turkey and lots of other places. Why do international students from such different countries seem to get along so well (mostly)? Do you think US students just don’t quite ‘get’ what it is to be an international student?

I admit that I’m more drawn towards the international students here at my university A fundamental part of it can most likely be attributed to my multicultural upbringing back in Kuala Lumpur. I realized that I have a large aversion to homogeneity so I tend to drift towards groups that are more dynamic and varied. While a person’s mere international status doesn’t necessarily render them “diversified”, foreign students tend to be shaped by cultures and societies that are drastically different from each other - so in that sense, when they are brought together, the fusion is always something that I’ve found extraordinary. Also, this isn’t to say that I don’t value my American friends - I just enjoy meeting people both local and foreign. I feel that when there is homogeneity, deviations from the “norm” are punished more severely and I don’t believe that helps me grow as a person. Adhering to a singular ideology isn’t something that should be rewarded, although it may feel comforting. I simply find that diversified groups learn to nurture and support contrasting views and types of people more so than others, which is why we all get along so well. There’s less of a status-quo, and thus, a horizontal approach is favoured more than a vertical view.


What kinds of things have you discovered about yourself since coming to the US? How have you changed?  

In my recent years here, I’ve come to recognize and appreciate the good things in life more - and I mean that on a very simple level. I mean my family and my friends. Being so far from home helped me understand that the relationships in my life are legitimately the most remarkable phenomena I will ever experience. At the end of all our journeys, they will ultimately be what we find most important. I stumbled over a great quote the other day by Max Lucado. His words encapsulated everything I just said - but much more eloquently:

“When you are in the final days of your life, what will you want? Will you hug that college degree in the walnut frame? Will you ask to be carried to the garage so you can sit in your car? Will you find comfort in rereading your financial statement? Of course not. What will matter then will be people. If relationships will matter most then, shouldn't they matter most now?”

I also think I’ve become a little more grounded and level-headed. Back home, despite being fairly independent, I admit I was living in a sheltered bubble. I was accustomed to a life of luxury and comfort, which also meant that I used to succumb to materialism much more easily. Ironically, coming to America - a nation that’s supposedly based on consumerism - has helped me become more down-to-earth.


What advice do you have to students who are thinking about coming to study in the US? Are there things you would change about your approach?


All I can say is to come here with an open-mind. I think a lot of us came into Charlottesville judging the University community much too harshly, and that only precluded us from benefiting from the wonderful aspects of the school. A significant part of it was that we longed for our own comfortable homes, which is natural, but we shouldn’t have allowed the discomfort of entering a new place impede our participation in it.


Also, on a second note, learn to cook in your first two years here - and I mean, actually cook. By that, I mean cooking healthy. I only started cooking at the end of my third year, and believe me when I say that the instant noodles and Trinity burgers will leave a mark.

Recently your university put out a wonderful video about the values of the school and the meaning of education. And of all the students at the school they picked you to be the star. Can you describe how this happened? More importantly, are the values they promote in the video true for you?

It was very unexpected, actually. I believe I was purchasing toilet paper in the CVS on the Corner when one of the casting women found me and asked me if I wanted to participate. Clearly one of my shining moments …

As far as whether I agree with the values promoted in the video, I’d say that I support everything - with the exception of Thomas Jefferson being the nation’s “greatest thinker”. Yes I attend his school and I just said that. In writing. On the internet. I hope they still pay me.

If you could be doing anything 5 years from now what would it be and why? What kinds of jobs/schools are you looking at after graduation?


In all honesty, I’m still deciding. It’s hard to say, given that my majors lend themselves to all sorts of jobs. Perhaps I’ll explore the publications industry, or maybe even delve into the media and communications business. All I know is that I want to be nestled somewhere deep in a bustling city - a warm one, preferably - but I also want to be able to travel. Is that too much to ask? The idea of being permanently grounded somewhere frightens me. I like movement and noise doesn’t bother me.



What are you going to miss most? Least?

I will undoubtedly miss the people the most. I’ve encountered some of the most amazing people during my years here, though some have already come and graduated. Some of them are my closest friends and some of them are people who I’ve merely shared a handful of conversations with. I’m very thankful to have had the opportunity to experience my university the way I did. I’ve been shaped by people who I’m genuinely grateful for and I can only hope that I’ve returned the favour and shaped others in a positive way as well. I take great comfort in knowing that I’ll move forward with my life with these people by my side and that I’ll carry bits and pieces of them everywhere, regardless of where I go. That’s something I realised upon leaving Taiwan and Kuala Lumpur. Sometimes bits and pieces are the best we can do, especially when we call multiple places our ‘home’. Miriam Adeney articulates it better - she says:

“You will never be completely at home again, because part of your heart always will be elsewhere. That is the price you pay for the richness of loving and knowing people in more than one place.”


As for what I’ll miss the least, I’d have to say that it’d be the isolated and bubble-like nature of a university like mine. College towns are amazing - I mean, there really won’t be another place in our lives where we’ll be entirely surrounded by people our age - but I have a feeling that we only relish it because we understand its true transitory nature. We understand that it isn’t meant to last.

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Debra epitomizes the citizens of the 5th largest country in the world. I am not talking about Malaysia, but about the 220,000,000 people who now live around the world in a country not is their own. Pico Iyer, one of the greatest living essayists, talks about this in a TED talk. The whole idea of identity, country, and home has all become more fluid.

Linda, Debra, and Teresa

Debra’s friends, in secondary school, and today, comprise a long list of people from countries and backgrounds. Many are those who were educated in international schools or those who are TCKs (Third Culture Kids). It should come as no surprise, however, that citizens of this global country described by Iyer tend to find themselves as friends. Their global perspective means they share this lived experience as a common culture. In the photo to the left, Debra is with Teresa and Linda.  In her interview, Teresa talks about her global perspective, which echoes, in a few important ways, Debra’s words. Although Teresa attended secondary school in her own country, she attended an international school and in some ways this created a boundary between her and the local Thai culture. Debra too found that the bubble of her international school did not often connect directly with the Malay population. Linda, also a global citizen, attended a national school but worked in a place that attracts people from all over the globe. In her interview Linda talks about how her mix of languages, experiences and friends prepared her for living the way Iyer describes.

The question then becomes: are these global citizens different than those brought up within a given culture?  Clearly the answer is yes. But studies and reports about international students don’t often address these kinds of fundamental differences. Recently a report came out about the orientation international students need in order to feel connected to a school. From what I can tell, the report lumps all international students under a single category and it is just this form of lumping that undercuts the specific qualities that each student brings. Schools report percentages of international students but I have yet to see data that would show, for example, how many of these students attended international schools and how many attended national schools. I have yet to see a school develop different approaches to the way to get students who come from such different backgrounds to immerse themselves in a new culture and system. The single approach to orienting international students will not be useful to some of the students: the students’ experiences and backgrounds are fundamentally different. International students certainly add diversity but the diversity is in many ways quite different from one person to another. (For example, a TCK or a global citizen like Debra will have a different worldview than someone who has grown up in one place).

The mentoring, orientation, and training a particular international student may need to feel more comfortable (and to also feel uncomfortable enough to get outside of their comfort zone) will be and should be different. Are schools teaching their administrators and career counselors about this? Not as far as I can tell.  Global citizens like Debra often feel most at home among the others who have grown up with transition. (Debra’s friends like Teresa’s and Linda’s are not those from their own country of origin; instead, they tend to come from all parts of globe but have had school or life experiences in mixing with other global citizens.) On the other hand, students who attended national schools often spend too much time with those from their own country. A one size fits all orientation and advising program for international students will not adequately address many of their concerns and issues. Unfortunately, as the article linked to above states, many schools don’t even have much support for them at all other than the one or two day orientation that happens when they first arrive on campus.

Debra’s interview underscores beautifully the way she has grown up with a global perspective. I hope educators will think more about the individuals that get lumped into disparate groups before creating a one size fits all policy to address issues.

Lana Turner

I am lucky to know Debra and to have had a chance to interview her here. Recently we talked about the making of her TV spot and the story grew epic. The number of people brought in to film, shoot, direct, edit etc. is about as large as some films people go to and pay lots to see. 3 days of shooting, countless takes, a 3 am session and a whole lot more. But the result demonstrates two things: getting great people to create a compelling story requires time, talent and money. It also shows that having a radiant talent fill the screen makes some of the work much easier.


As Debra says, she was in a local CVS when a talent agent spotted her and asked her to audition. The story reminds me a bit of one of the most famous stories ever from Hollywood. Lana Turner, was, so the legend goes, “discovered” by a Hollywood director while she was at the soda counter at Schwab’s. pharmacy. As with most myths out of Hollywood, this isn’t quite accurate but Lana was indeed discovered at a soda fountain. It may be that Debra’s “discovery” at CVS may yet become the stuff of myth as she pursues her life’s journey in the world. I am goad she has been able to add her inspiration words to her inspiration video. No matter what she chooses for her future she will bring talent and global perspective. She really is a star.

Ready for the Academy Awards?