What does it mean to attend one of the best high schools in the world? More and Less Than You Might Think

Does attending one of the best secondary schools in the world help to get students accepted to a great colleges and universities? Is this an easy question? Maybe it’s not as easy at you think.

A student from one of these schools asked the following question of Quora.com. My answer applies not just to this particular school, but to almost all of the magnet and top public and private schools across the US and around the world.

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How much do college admissions look at your high school's reputation? Do students at elite schools (even with lower GPA) have an advantage over students at other schools (who may have a higher GPA/class rank)?

I go to TJHSST, an elite science/tech magnet school in Alexandria, Virginia. I really enjoy it and there are lots of really smart people, but I worry that I'm at a disadvantage for admission to the top colleges because I'm probably only in the top 25% of my class (rather than the top 5% at many other schools), and my GPA is lower than it might be at another school (4.25 rather than 4.5). Is that a legitimate concern?

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TJ's  SAT average compared t0 other
Fairfax Schools

TJ ranks as one of the top (if not the top) schools in the US. The number of National Merit Semis from this school often outnumbers those of some States. The students have to compete to get in and Fairfax/Nova has among the best public education systems in the US; therefore, they draw students whose previous performance indicates they will do well in the school and beyond. That’s what magnet schools were designed to do; the dat show that they have accomplished their mission if things like average SAT scores indicate. (Why are there not more magnet schools like this opening up around the US—a good question for Quora and the educational community as a whole.)

I have visited the school many times and lectured there, so I speak literally from experience rather than just from some data points. Walking into TJ and being in the halls when classes change is far different than going into most schools. It can’t quite be classified in simple ways, but there is an energy that exists in and out of classes (I’ve sat in on a good number) and in the school as a whole that I have rarely encountered (at least in the US; I've felt this same thing at a significant number of the ‘best’schools around the world).

You are lucky indeed to be going there, as it will prepare you for success at virtually any college or university in the world. Feeling good? I hope so, because here comes the sad part.

1962 St Paul's Hockey Team: Can you spot John Kerry?

Not all that long ago, the Harvard Crimson ran an article on ‘feeder’ schools, those few schools that send quite few students to Harvard year in and year out. The schools are well known and are great. Yet, TJ is not among them. Why would this be? It isn’t as though TJ is not known there, but the nature of selective admission to top schools is such that where you go to school and how you do does not always follow a pattern most would expect.

Universities and colleges (and the smaller the school like the most elite small liberal arts schools of the world), the more likely they are, in a de facto way, to restrict the numbers coming in from any given school. These days, the most elite colleges and universities want to have a student body from all over the US and the world. Part of this stems from trying to get past the past-- the composition of the educational landscape several generations ago. Back in the 50’s and 60's the students who entered laces like Harvard or Williams, for example, consisted far more dramatically than today, of a large group from boarding schools and private schools, mostly located in the northeast (and a few other places). The elite schools catered to men (most of the top schools were single sex back then) who were from schools that were known as great. This was before colleges and universities began to travel, all fall, first regionally, then nationally and now internationally in search of students. There were no marketing budgets and for the most part the admission committees were made up of faculty rather than administrators.  They took what they saw as sure bets and so those secondary schools with great reputations tended to receive large numbers of admission offers. It was clubby and chummy. Back then there were no US News rankings and there was not competition among colleges to get to the top of “best" lists the way there is now. But all that has changed. And there are some great reasons for making these changes, but there are also consequences that affect schools like TJ that some would argue are not meritocratic.

When women were finally permitted to enroll in the best schools it doubled the applicant pool and made admission much more selective. Not long after that, rankings came into play. All of a sudden things got way harder for students even from the best schools. More important, however, schools wanted to play down the reports in the press (and, in part, the reality) that they were bastions of privilege. They wanted to offer spaces to strong students from all walks of life. Diversity became the mantra and to some degree this word and the ideology behind it still ranks as one of the top goals of the most selective schools. Diversity means lots of things but all of these are important at some level now: socioeconomic, first generation, under-represented populations, and geographic diversity are all of interest to schools and the media.  As a result, schools have gone to great lengths to demonstrate they are diverse in all these ways.

This may seem off point but let me try to show why going to TJ is not in and of itself good or bad, but a some of both. Given the focus on diversity in all its forms, the most selective colleges that get  huge applicant pools do not often want to enroll a large group of students from a single school or even, in some cases, from a single region. This effort to spread the offers means that going to TJ will not automatically help you get in to the top schools in the US even though virtually every school in the US knows it ranks near the top of high schools anywhere. Does this make rational sense? It does from their point of view if you remember that they are looking for students from many places and backgrounds. But for those who argue for a flat meritocratic system (something that has never existed in the world and never will), then they will be disappointed with this approach. In addition, TJ has a very high percentage of Asians students and as everyone knows (but college won’t say,) there are just too many great Asians students applying to the most selective schools.

In your particular case, your standing at TJ now will get you into many of the top schools in the US, but it’s very unlikely you could crack the top of the top unless you are an Intel winner or a special (under-represented group, first generation, athlete etc.). If the top schools won’t offer to more than a handful of TJ students it should come as no surprise that they will take the 4.5 students first. But going to a different Fairfax school might not have helped either. If you were at the top of the top at Langley or Marshall or Woodson you’d still be competing in a region where some colleges are only going to take but so many students. And there is no guarantee (although many students assume it to be so) that a student at TJ with lower GPA would be at the very top of another school. It well could be true, but then it's also true the top schools turn down the valedictorians of many schools around the world. I've addressed recently about who gets in to Ivies and why and for anyone trying to get into a school with 6% accept rate the odds are just not good for anyone. 

If you are now feeling depressed, let me see if I can pitch something that should make you feel, if not elated, at least a bit better. Is TJ a feeder school to some of the best schools in the US? Absolutely. What are these schools? I will list 3. William and Mary, Virginia Tech and the University of Virginia.

These are 3 of the top public schools in the US; in addition, they are among of the top schools overall. Hundreds of TJ students are accepted to these schools and many choose to attend. I can say from personal experience (I was in charge of overseeing the selection of honors students into one of these schools) that these students do exceptionally well on campus. Each year, I ran a report that listed the average GPA, by high school, of all enrolled students.  With the exception of some international schools, TJ students’ performance was the best of any school that enrolled 10 or more students in a four-year cycle (what I considered a large enough number for useful comparison data).  This outcome should come as no surprise. TJ deserves its great reputation and the data proves that the students do better, at least in terms of GPA, than almost anywhere else. My guess is that if this data were run by other schools (and I hope that this is being done) that the performance of TJ students across all the schools they attend would be exceptionally high relative to almost all other schools too. From this point of view, TJ has prepared you for success.

success

But given what I have written already, this does not mean that even this data will help increase the numbers of TJ students getting into the most selective schools. It could help but my guess is that schools would not release this data. If schools starting showing, publically at least, how students from specific secondary schools did on their campuses, there would be surprises, outcry, and lots else. It’s this kind of deep data that should be gathered to inform parents, students and educators but there are many reasons that it won’t, or if it is, it won’t see the light of day in public. (To explain why would involve a book-length digression).

But for you life should be good as you do have great options ahead. But life is never that simple. This time, the problem is not with what schools decide about TJ aps; rather, it’s the culture that goes on within the walls of TJ itself. I have talked to many, many TJ students over the years and for some, especially those with top gpas, schools like the great public universities within the Commonwealth of Virginia, are perceived by them as back ups at best. The expectation of these students is that not only should they get in to the State schools, but that the ‘deserve’ to be a part of the honors programs. And in many cases I think they are correct. But because so many TJ kids go to the great State schools some students there look down upon these places. They forget they live in a very elite bubble and while there may be a large number of classmates on campus this does not mean the university itself is not near the top. These State universities have what I would call the wisdom to accept lots of these great students rather than using other non-academic rubrics too liberally in order to limit TJ students.

Instead of viewing these State colleges and universities as less than great opportunities compared to higher ranked schools, I think more top students there should think seriously about turning down higher ranked schools. Of course given my background I can be expected to say this, but again I’d point to the data. First of all, the cost for attending a top state school is half what a private would be. Some students go into a lot of debt to trade up a few places on some rankings that don’t mean much. As important, however, is something I have written about a lot on Quora, my blog and lots of other places too.

Students from a magnet school like TJ who go to a college and university (especially as an honors scholar) have the data in hand to demonstrate that it is likely that at the end of 4 years they will graduate near the top of the class.  And if a student graduates from a great college or university with a stellar GPA, research, honors major etc. that will help these students get into the best graduate schools. For the high flyers that are TJ students, undergraduate degrees are usually just one part of the academic journey. A TJ student coming out at the top of a great state school will have the chance to get into the top of the top grad schools. I have seen this happen again and again. Gladwell writes about this in “David and Goliath”, and he’s is pretty convincing. And I have nearly 30 years of watching great kids from TJ do very well and then go on the top companies and grad schools. Why am I saying this?

Because you are a wonderful student who will likely have the chance to go to one of this great state schools and maybe even be a part of the honors programs. Your chances of getting into most Ivies may not be all that great, but so what? Go where you’ll shine and then you will have as many or more options than if you went someplace that might cost much more and give you fewer options later.  Best of luck no matter where you go.