I am posting a conversation with a number of people that took place on Facebook the last few days. The conversation is a bit conscientious but also enlightening, at least from me. It also serves as a kind of template for what I hope will happen on this blog.
I have raised issues on a number of occasion that I had hoped would generate some differing views. As with any large topic, education is far too complex for any one person to know about in ways that are always the most useful to the most people.
This is one of the reasons I ask people far more knowledgeable than me to write here. In addition, the topics raised often suggest or outline plans of action. But action means a choice has to be made about which road to follow. Sometimes the road less followed might be good. Sometimes not. Even Robert Frost was not always right.
What follows are the thoughts from some people who are smart and care about the issues raised. I am grateful to them for taking the time to write movingly about this issue. I hope more of you will do this today and more will continue to take the time to add their voices to the ongoing conversation that I hope this blog will be. Conversations are far more interesting to me, at least, than lectures.
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This
is what most think of upper middle class people in this country. It's
funny, but jokes are also often masking a serious critique (as Freud
was smart enough to point out). They certainly are not in need of
protected status, but still, the assumptions are often insulting and
more often wrong, at least from the thousands of people I have met from
this demographic.
· · Share
Thomas Pine Putting aside your characterization of this fictional individual as "upper middle class" (Americans who live in $2.3m homes are middle class?), who are you trying to defend here? It's true that many of the people from this demographic actually possess compassion and some of them do realize the fortune of the accident of their birth. While examining many of your recent Facebook posts, however, I'm struck by the fact that *this* is the one demographic that you choose to defend as being judged unfairly: a wealthy white American male. What a heavy burden he faces with so many false assumptions saddled to his back...have you read any Kipling, Dean Muth?
Parke Muth Hi Thomas, Thank you for your comment. I am glad to have spurred you into words. That is the point. From where I sit I often hear many people in education say terrible things about kids who drive cars that are nicer than theirs, who live in McMansions, and who have had opportunities they have never had.They have not met these kids, but they think that they know what goes on inside their hearts and heads. I have talked with thousands of these wonderful students, and sure there are some smug jerks. I have written about that too. If these people who condemn this group (and don't bother to get to know the individuals in question) by what they wear and where they live can still be objective in their assessments of students, then these opinions are theirs and that is not an issue. If they affect who gets accepted to certain schools then it is worthy of note here, given what I hope to do, which is raise issues that are often talked about behind closed doors rather than aired in a public forum. Kipling's white man's burden is something everyone should read and think about. It has some pretty inflaming stuff in it. That's why I think it should be read in every high school.
Sima Dajani Hi Thomas, I don't think Dean Muth is necessarily "defending" anyone here but I do think he is shedding light on a problem often ignored in the U.S. which leads to several other even more important issues in society.
When the majority of other Americans look at the wealthy class as snobs without even getting to know people of this demographic they are immediately creating divisions between social classes that otherwise could be fostered by communication and in a broad sense breed more economic opportunities for let's say lower class economic groups. However, despite this minor point, it is wrong to generalize people based on a particular widely held perception. It's important not to do this.
I don't want to jump to conclusions but while it is true that the upper middle class, particularly white and male class do have more opportunities and generally wealth, it seems in my opinion, by scrutinizing them simply on their wealth, we give fair game to wealthier groups such as this to sort of rebel against Welfare and services that aid in economic issues and these widely held perceptions by not wanting to pay more money in taxes or things of that sort. Instead, we're seeing more of a top down approach (esp with canidates like Mitt Romney) that is slowly galvanizing the wealthy 1% and is not very effective in my opinion
Parke Muth And I would say both of you are doing exactly what needs to be done in this country. Disagree civilly and make cogent points. Thank you so very much!
Sima Dajani Thanks Dean Muth! It's funny because I actually just meant to comment that I think humor is a wonderful way to point out issues in society without making people bored or really frustrated. I love the Onion!
Parke Muth Me too. Humor allows us to air aggression without quite the anger that full frontal critical attacks generate. Would there were an onion of the middle east! I think the comedy specials from some of the brave few who make light of the issues there and other places should be mandatory viewing for some people.
The-Pan-Arabia-Enquirer/
152861734757747 haha there is! And many more i'm sure. Sidenote: I compiled my comment before I saw Dean Muth's response lol
Parke Muth You
have just made my night much happier. Thank you. What a great way to
end a friday night--seeing people laugh at the follies of life. It's
hard to stay angry through laughter. I really appreciate your comments
and your links.
Thomas Pine Sima,
I respect your opinion, but I strongly disagree with it; your point is
basically a socioeconomic class version of the "discussing individuals
in terms of race perpetuates racism" argument. Burying your head in the
sand only encourages unscrupulous individuals to snatch as much as they
can while your eyeballs are underground. Back on topic, however, I think
you missed my point. I wasn't taking issue with wealthy entitled
Americans. My problem is that Dean Muth needed to publicly refute the
entitled stereotype of the wealthy; the fact the he felt a need to speak
out about the entitlement stereotype creates an implicit equivalency of
entitlement with the "parasitic" stereotype of those on government
assistance, the "deviant subhuman" stereotype of homosexuals, etc. Being
called a rich asshole is not the same thing as being called a dirty
faggot who doesn't deserve basic human rights.
Parke Muth I
think just the background photo of the site alone is hysterical. I
blame you now for what promises to be a very late night of me giggling.
Parke Muth Thomas,
Now we are on to some philosophical ground I like, the rating of
rhetoric. Is there an objective measure by which you can scale the hurt
inflicted by the words you quote? Doesn't this also have to do with
genetics of the family (not the race) and individual experience and a
whole host of other issues? I know of some people who have been
psychically crushed by far lesser words than the ones you cite. Are you
saying there is an objective scale of measurable insult that applies to
class and race and gender etc? If this is s,o are there studies you have
to support this? I always want to see data and would love to learn from
you. Otherwise, without data, it is opinion and on that we are sure to
disagree.
Sima Dajani Thanks
for your response Thomas. First, I'll respond to your main point. The
reason why calling someone a "dirty faggot who doesn't..." is different
than calling someone a "rich asshole" is because they are not the same
kind of insult to say the least. Although this type of distinction can
be up to interpretation and even personal experience that can go in many
different directions. It's important to note though, one could simply
be based on observation or a snarky baseless remark while the other lies
in an obscure way of reasoning. It's important to understand this
difference. Lastly, by Parke posting this funny picture on his wall, it
doesn't mean that he values defending one demographic over another,
again, it's vital to understand this distinction. This happens to me
often because I post many political articles and i've encountered issues
with people saying I focus on the wrong issues and what not. However,
one's facebook is essentially one's personal space, there are really no
rules and official interests unless explicitly stated by the user, one's
postings doesn't necessarily have to fall in line with their personal
beliefs nor does it mean that he wouldn't post other things of
importance which may in fall in line with your opinions and his of
greater value if he spotted it at a convenient time.
Sima Dajani (Again my response was not quick enough to beat Parke's but hope you can take it in as well)
Yesterday at 1:06am · · 1
Parke Muth And
as a follow up before I o off to post a blog (I will return when that
is done) I will recommend a book, the body in pain. Here is what one of
my favorite authors says about it: "An extraordinary book:
large-spirited, heroically truthful. A necessary book."--Susan Sontag
The book examines physical pain but also physic pain and makes some
rather shocking statements. It tells us that we can never know another's
pain. It is ineffable. I have always been very suspicious of how
hospitals use the pain scales.
Would you describe your pain from 1 to 10. How on earth does this measure anything objectively. For some, a hangnail might be a 10; for others, amputation without anesthetic a 9. In other words, we have very few inroads into the mind of what another subjectively feels.This is changing. Brian scans fcan ell us much about this and I am sure dome great work is being done of the effect of certain words as we speak. We imagine the pain of another (or we should) and some people actually derive pleasure from these imaginative leaps.(Have you ever enjoyed a horror movie?) So too do words inflict pain. There are some jurists in the US who argue that the stripes a person in Singapore receivse for an infraction are not nearly as great as the psychic wounds of being held behind bars for years awaiting trial. In other words, subjectivity is just that, subjective. It cannot be measure objectively. QED as they say in logic classes. If I am wrong about this I need to know as I need to shft paradgm (to stela T Kuhn's phrae) about the way humans are wired. I do have lots of data on this."An extraordinary book: large-spirited, heroically truthful. A necessary book."--Susan Sontag
Would you describe your pain from 1 to 10. How on earth does this measure anything objectively. For some, a hangnail might be a 10; for others, amputation without anesthetic a 9. In other words, we have very few inroads into the mind of what another subjectively feels.This is changing. Brian scans fcan ell us much about this and I am sure dome great work is being done of the effect of certain words as we speak. We imagine the pain of another (or we should) and some people actually derive pleasure from these imaginative leaps.(Have you ever enjoyed a horror movie?) So too do words inflict pain. There are some jurists in the US who argue that the stripes a person in Singapore receivse for an infraction are not nearly as great as the psychic wounds of being held behind bars for years awaiting trial. In other words, subjectivity is just that, subjective. It cannot be measure objectively. QED as they say in logic classes. If I am wrong about this I need to know as I need to shft paradgm (to stela T Kuhn's phrae) about the way humans are wired. I do have lots of data on this."An extraordinary book: large-spirited, heroically truthful. A necessary book."--Susan Sontag
Yesterday at 1:27am · · 1
Parke Muth Sorry for errors. I have to post a blog right now. I will be back to check on comments. Thank you one and all.
Yesterday at 1:28am · · 1
David R. Humrich Parke, true story? Sounds a bit embellished? Richmond VA has its own story like this going on now.
Yesterday at 7:16am · · 1
Parke Muth Again,
it is great to have people comment on this. I actually wrote to someone
when I first posted this and said I expected some controversy. It took
less than a couple of minutes to do so. That is what is great about
social media. As long as the words are respectful and knowledge-based, I
hope there will be lots more of this here and, probably even better, on
the blog.
21 hours ago · · 1
John Riemann Soong Before
I came to UVA, I categorised this demographic (subconsciously) in two
ways. (Let's define this demographic as everyone above the 80th
percentile.) There were the individuals defined by their socioeconomic
status/privilege, and those who transcended it. Then, I was pretty
resentful of the former category, though I applauded the latter. By
"defined by their socioeconomic status", I mean those who never really
break the mould-- you could simulate their collective behavior with a
robust mathematical model and not expect much deviation. Then there are
those who strove to lead a unique, self-determined life; you couldn't
treat them as just abstract manifestations of a social force.
Then I came to UVA. I actually don't know where my feelings exactly stand on this demographic at the moment, it's kinda complicated. But I guess it's now easier to perceive what I would have formerly put in the first category more as people rather than impersonal, alien abstractions.
Then I came to UVA. I actually don't know where my feelings exactly stand on this demographic at the moment, it's kinda complicated. But I guess it's now easier to perceive what I would have formerly put in the first category more as people rather than impersonal, alien abstractions.
Parke Muth John,
thank you for your comments. I think your approach to the question
demonstrates how well you can bring your learning to bear on virtually
any area. I predict success ahead in the world for you.Your insights
helped me learn. Thank you.
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